What does "observance" mean to you? Do you consider or call yourself observant? Why or why not?

I think "observant" will always be something I'm not, but which I will ultimately aspire to be.

I see observant as Shabbat observant (refraining from the 39 categories of work) and at least a basic level of kosher (not eating trayf foods, but maybe not keeping separate dishes).

I think of "being observant" as following every we can, from refraining from restricted activities on Shabbat to keeping fully kosher.

And, no, I don't consider myself as being observant; there is so much I don't do even though I want to. I do what I can now, and I look for ways to increase my observance, but I'm far from doing it all. I'm ok with that. I'll get there eventually.

To me, "observant" is sort of a PC term for "Orthodox." I think that comes from having a Modern Orthodox partner and basically to him there is "Observant" and "Bad Jew."

We're working on that.

I hope to be "observant" (keeping kosher and Shabbat fully) one day, though it probably won't be immediately after I convert. Still, I'll still have to make some compromises (particularly if I end up living permanently out-of-town) since there isn't really a way for me to keep kosher and Shabbat if I'm visiting my family overnight. I'll have to be content with eating vegetarian in my parents' house since bringing a week's supply of food along with me seems rather rude.

Like maculated was saying, I can't stand how some Orthodox people use the term "observant" as a synonym for "orthodox." There are plenty of "orthodox" Jews who don't observe everything, just as there are plenty of Conservative and Reform Jews who do attempt to keep as many mitzvot as possible (though admittedly most of these people are rabbis and cantors).

I'd like to clarify that not only are there "observant" non-Orthodox Jews, but there are Conservative Jews who are not clergy either and who still choose to live fully observant lives---just the same as normative Modern Orthodox except for davening with egalitarian groups (for example, they don't turn on/off lights on Shabbat). I know this very well because that would describe a majority of the members of lay-led minyan. In fact, 30 years ago, the founders were members of a liberal Modern Orthodox shul before they became unhappy with the restrictions on roles for women and formed their own congregation. (The "straw that broke the camel's back" was when the women were prevented from dancing with a Torah even on the women's side of the mechitza on Simchat Torah.) While it is true that there are several members who are rabbis (former congregational rabbis who are now hospital chaplains, and the former director of the Conservative flagship summer camp) and cantors (who formerly held jobs as professional cantors for other congregations), most of the most observant members are not clergy, although many are Jewish educators.

I think it is indicative of the observance levels that a fair number of minyan kids have attended Orthodox day schools---almost half of the minyan kids used to attend an Orthodox high school before the Conservative high school opened, but a few still go to the Orthodox one. And although most of the kids attend the Schechter Conservative day school, a few have attended Orthodox day schools. It also turns out that the first minyan kid to become a rabbi got semicha from RIETS at Yeshiva University, the premier Modern Orthodox university in the US. This is because those families are traditional enough that they fit in just fine with Orthodox families.

Some of the most observant members grew up in Modern Orthodox homes, but some grew up in observant Conservative homes, and others grew up in less observant homes, but became Shomer Kashrut and Shabbat when they married more observant spouses or simply decided as adults to become more observant. Admittedly, my minyan is rather unusual. In fact, when a very well-known rabbi who is a professor at JTS came as the speaker for our 25th anniversary Shabbaton, he was amazed by the level of observance. But he didn't know quite how to deal with the fact that members could have both very traditional and rather non-traditional beliefs (sometimes by the same person): for example, a self-identified Orthodox member was upset that he suggested that the account of Sinai was not literally true (as she believes), and yet at the same time there were members who were upset at the Conservative Movement for not being more officially accepting of gays.

I think it is important to understand that even 40 years ago, the average Conservative Jew was a lot more traditional. A much high percentage kept kosher and were Shomer Shabbat. I know of minyan members who grew up in "mixed" Orthodox-Conservative families (their parents affiliated with different movements) which was possible in part because there was an overlap between the two movements that doesn't really exist any more. But even though the percentage of observant members in most Conservative shuls is much lower today, I think observant members typically exist in most Conservative shuls, just quietly and in smaller numbers. There is a minyan family who is quite observant who now lives within walking distance of the shul led by my sponsoring rabbi. (They want to live closer to the Conservative high school where the woman is a teacher.) It is hard for them because the area is not within an eruv, so before walking to shul on Shabbat the man empties his pockets even of small items like tissue, and it was a challenge when their daughter was younger and found it hard to walk all the way to shul since they would not use a stroller. They have found a very small group of Shomer Shabbat families at the shul to socialize with, although they are lonely because the other families are about 20 years older and don't have young children. They are also friends with some MO families in their area, but to join the MO community would mean that the woman of the family would have to give up leading services and reading Torah at Shabbat services and there would be little participation open to their daughter when she reaches bat mitzvah age.

In the past few decades, there have been a number of young Conservative Jews who attended Jewish day schools and/or Ramah residential summer camps who have been inspired to lead more observant lives. Some of them become rabbis or Jewish educators. Some of them join Orthodox communities, in part because it is hard to find an observant Conservative community and sometimes because they marry Orthodox spouses or because they decide that Orthodox Judaism better fulfills their religious needs. Some of them have created their own "independent minyanim"---most of these lay-led congregations are somewhere in the space between observant Conservative and liberal Modern Orthodox. I know people who are examples of all of the above.

A major difference between Conservative and Reform ideology is that Conservative Jews still believe in the binding nature of Halacha, so keeping kosher, Shabbat, even "family purity" are all still technically required even if a lot of Jews affiliated with Conservative shuls don't do these things, and may not even know that Conservative Judaism requires them. For Reform Jews, these observances are considered optional and can be observed if desired, but it is no "sin" or shame not to observe the most of the traditional mitzvot. I think many people, including Orthodox Jews, assume that Conservative and Reform ideology are the same given the way most members of the two movements live their lives. (And perhaps given some controversial and misunderstood Conservative rulings on certain aspects of Halacha.)

Liney, interestingly, I went to talk to a Rabbi who did an interesting treatment of that very question in a series of podcasts (what makes you Orthodox or Conservative) and he basically came back with "level of practice" is sort of what defines you.

Which is interesting. My husband staunchly identifies himself as Modern Orthodox and we have pretty much the same beliefs and observances. I watch as MO works on tearing down some of the less egalitarian and foolish practices and don't know WHAT I am, so don't define your "label" solely on Torah at Sinai.

Humans like to organize and categorize, but it's not like, after we die, God is going to separate us off by denomination. We'll only be judged by what we were capable of doing, but didn't do--not what other people were doing.

Hi- new member here and this topic caught my eye!

(disclaimer: I'm not even Jewish- yet- but just muddling through random questions about practice that occur to me as I read and learn)

Do Reform and Conservative Jews mix and play well with Orthodox Jews?

I already know I cannot convert Orthodox, so Reform or perhaps Conservative is my route. However, those second two synagogues are all the way across town while the Orthodox one is only two blocks up the street. Assuming I am able to convert, is it better for me to go to the closest one- the Orthodox- or schlep myself across town? (Not that it's any inconvenience to go across town, of course, but the proximity of the Orthodox synagogue does have a certain pull.)

Now, even if I attended services at the Orthodox synagogue- and I were the most ultra-observant man in the building- am I correct in understanding that I would still not be allowed to participate fully in such activities as aliyah during services and such? Of course I could look the part and join the black hat and beard brigade but I expect as I would not be 'right' from a Jewish law standpoint, no matter what I did or how observant I was it would not make any difference.

I completely understand the need for standards and education for conversion, but it is a bit strange on the one hand to read that for converts it's a case of you're a Jew if you convert Orthodox, but if you convert Reform or Conservative you're *something else*, no matter how many of the mitzvot you follow. This, contrasted with (and please correct me if I'm wrong) born Jews being pegged only on their level of observance. I understand the need to 'prove myself' in order to convert; it's a little disconcerting that if I were to practice fully Orthodox I couldn't BE Orthodox, and would always be defined, not as a Jew, but by my type of conversion.

Or am I putting waaayyyy too much thought into this, and it's not really that big of a deal in the real world?